sarge-m's Blog

We are allways being sold out . I think this is a way for the dems to knock down the stock market before election time .

well we see what nafta did for us.... and on the immigration issue bush picked the wrong topic to push.... I will admit this to anyone... 2000 I worked had on his campaign. I worked with folks who came up from tx. Right atfer he was elected from jan till 911 he was siding with the democrats on every issue... those that attack on no child that was kennedy and mrs bush's work... 911 he showed he was strong.. got my support for the war on terror but has not got an ounce of it on domestic issues. 2004 I tried to work on his campaign I went in for 1 thats ONE day thats all i could give him of my time...

I think non terror histroy will be good to the man.. the rest he will be right up there with the great ones... wislon,hoover,carter and gw bush as some of americas worst!

Tim I fully understand what your thinking about free trade i thought the same way as you that it was good for this country. It is good for business but for the people not so good!

Colt, You are right. The problem is for the last years, there was no balance in Govt. Republicans could push through anything they want. Yes, Dems would not be any better, but if enough where in office, it would have kept the Republicans in check.

Indeed, NAFTA did do a great deal of good for this country. Combined with the Reagan tax cuts and deregulation free trade allowed this country to go into one of the longest periods of economic growth that was matched by the rise in per capita GDP and personal wealth. Of course Michigan did not fair too well because of NAFTA, but that was due to the concentration Michigan had on the auto industry as a result of union intervention in government policies regarding subsidies and trade. The American Auto Industry was already doing very poorly with our protectionist policies (evidenced by the need for a government bail out during the 1980's) which only served to protect inflated wages forced to be paid by unions.

As for Bush, I think Bush did fairly well on fulfilling his campaign promises. He promised to cut taxes across the board, he did. He promised increased military spending, it happened. He, whether we like it or not, promised to reach across the isle and include Democrats in policy making, that is what he was doing. 9/11 happened and he showed true leadership.

Free trade is essential to this nation. How would you feel if the government banned Walmart and Mejiers, what do you think would happen? Prices would go up because there are fewer companies therefore fewer competition. Do you think we should ban or high regulate trade from Ohio? Do you think "the people" would be better off if we did? Of course not. We have free trade among every State in the Union and we are the strongest, richest country in the world as a result of it. All free trade means i

Ok MEN..the only thing u should be debating on is what to get me for my bday tommorrow, lmao..kidding...and Sarge no more 1864....lol and about this blog....still have NO idea who or if im voting at all for...Hope your haveing a GREAT weekend..Luvs

What evidence is there to back that up? The 1990's was one of the largest periods of economic growth in this country's history. Reductions in tariffs is deregulation, it is part of taking down barriers put up out of ignorance and xenophobia. Tariffs do for trade what taxes do for spending.

Tim will never get it. I agreed with the dereg it was great for many things for example the phone company but nafta has had a huge negitive effect on this nation and its employment.. I know tim you are going to offer the business side on this issue yet again. I will say it is great for the corps but for the american worker it is killing us. How can we purchase products when either you are out of work or you cannot afford them due to a cut in income?

I would love to see Wal Mart banned. They are driving wages down, one of the motivators for jobs going overseas as manufacturers look to produce cheaper goods, which as a result causes losses of American jobs.

Clinton started it with NAFTA and Bush continues it.

Sarge,

Why would we need to compete with Chinese low wages? With lower wages comes lower prices which means we spend less on those products so we have more to spend on other products. The decrease in the prices of products is an increase in our purchasing power and thus a de facto raise in our standard of living. No country has ever collapsed because their prices were too low.

Slaves are kept slaves by denying them education. If their population lacks education then they can never create high tech products or other products which require education therefore they will be entirely dependent upon us for those products. Those industries are higher wage industries and it would be in our country's best interest to specialize in high education and therefore high salary jobs, would we not? Do you honestly think that we should be competing with China over making shirts and shoes?

The bottom line is that trade is not a zero sum game, they benefit and we benefit. There was a time in our country when people had low wage BS jobs working in sweat shops making next to nothing. As our industries developed and demand grew for the products we produced it tightened the labor markets and forced wages up. Increased wages allowed us to increase our standard of living. China is seeing the same thing in their country right now. Their wages are going up and their standard of living is going up, and so is ours. The US economy grew approximately 30% from 2003 to 2006. That growth in our economy, just the growth, is equal to the entire Chinese economy and their economy nearl

No justbecause, it makes you a good person. Walmart is the single largest employer in the United States and provides countless goods at a price low enough to allow millions of poor people to afford them when they otherwise wouldn't be able to. Walmart has generated billions of dollars in tax revenue as well as billions of dollars in profit, profit which goes to shareholder and as you know approximately 80% of Americans own stock in one way or another, many if not most of them as a part of their retirement. Walmart does more to alleviate poverty then any government agency.

My point was not Walmart, which carries with it a not unique stigma which brands it as "evil." What if the only companies allowed in Michigan were those based in Michigan? Would there not be dramatically less competition? Would you not be forced to pay higher prices? Would the higher prices not reduce the products purchased at that store? Would that store then in turn have to lower wages in order to lower prices to try to break even? Yes they would. Class warfare and policies made out of anger rather than reason never help anyone, they only allow you to vent your anger at what you do not have or what you do not understand. I too shop at Walmart and will continue to shop at the store that offers the lowest prices.

I've got that much, you think that NAFTA is draining money and resources out of the country. My question is why do you think that? Why can't you rely on service to give a nation economic growth, it works for Miami Beach. It works for Mackinaw. It works for Windsor and with the Casinos it works for Los Vegas. If service jobs could not add to economic growth then how does anyone have a service job? How do people complain about "jobs leaving the US for India?" Those are support jobs, service jobs that are created in India that allow for someone to be on the other end of the phone at 3:00 in the morning when your computer crashed from looking at all that pornography, I mean blogging, and you need technical support right then and there.

The fact is that the number of those with college degrees has risen, the middle class has risen, and GDP has risen in the United States since the passage of NAFTA.

Please tell me WHY exactly you feel that freedom is bad?

Tim, All those "service jobs" in India are not just answering machine jobs. These are programming jobs too.

I have read your bio, and understand you are well educated. You spent a lot of time, energy and money to go to school. How would you like it if all jobs you are qualified for went to India and the ones left would only pay you $12 an hour? Companies are doing that very thing right now. Because they can get away with it. You would think, what good is this education. You would be pissed that you invested all that money for nothing. I know people like you with Masters degrees that can't even find a job. One I know is working at a Hungry Howies. This is what this "free trade" has done for us. Yes, free to others as we help them with our technology and expertise and then they use it against us.

Japan used American steel to build their zeros and you know what that got us.

All that protectionism and unionism led to decreased efficiency, decreased competitiveness, and a lower standard of living for anyone not a member of the auto unions. The tariffs came down, the union structure collapsed and everyone related to those pillagers saw a restoration to what they should be compensated while the rest of the country (and poor third world countries dying of starvation) saw a substantial rise in their standard of living.

Our current plight in Michigan is of our own doing. We need to allow freedom in this country in our relations to other countries because it improves the lives of all involved.

P.S. As for the Japanese, they attacked us after we shut down trade, that was their excuse for Pearl Harbor and remains their explanation to this day. Today, they are one of our biggest trading partners and not coincidently one of our biggest allies. Economic inter-reliance leads to political inter-reliance. Just look at our improved relations with China.

Tim, I agree somewhat. I didn't say we should not have some relations. I say the field should be level. Yes, I agree our relations are better. How can America compete with China when they don't have all the environmental concerns, work place safety and such. These things are neccessary and cost American companies a lot of money. American companies in China don't have to worry about that. I think it was in India, when an American company,"Union carbide" destroyed the environment and tons of people died and still are dying and sick and disabled from this contamination. No recourse for these people. What kind of relation is that? Mark my words, this will happen again in these free trade countries. It will take years, but it will happen.

As for Japan, If I remember right, we shut down trade with them because we knew they where building their forces up.

We don't need to compete because they are bound by the laws of economics, just the same as we are. Eventually China will begin to experience labor shortages just the same as the US as they did in 2005 and are continuing to experience today. Over a billion people, that may be how many people they have to produce things but that is also how many people they have to feed, how many people they may have to watch out for criminals in, that many people to provide medical care for, economic strength is relative. If they destroy their environment they will feel the consequences. They care about their environment, they are not heartless, eventually they will become more and more like American, in fact, they are already starting to suffer from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, immune and autoimmune disease, and all the other problems that come with an American diet.

Tainted pet food made the news, yes, but so did the Taco Bell Ecole episode. They make the news because they happen so rarely, not because they happen so often. A big episode like this, it causes companies to not associate themselves with that company anymore. The result is that company's sales go down, it's profits go down, and other companies with higher standards move in and take up that business resulting in a better product. That company will reform as well if not more to try to recapture that market. American products are filled with high fructose corn syrup, trans fats, and countless other pesticides. Do you think they are safer than Chinese products?

The Indian government is responsible for the I

OK , I have to agree with Tim on just about everything he has written. I too have studied economics and understand the global impact. The problem with most Americans is that we view things so locally rather than the big picture of Global. I think that NAFTA was a step in the right direction but reeally should look at GFTA Global Free Trade Agreement.
Allow the free market enterprise to work.
PS I have a Masters also and have trouble finding work in my field. That is why I teach and continue to go to school to become educated in various fields to open up my opportunities.
If you are displaced because you thought that a company would "take care of you for life" and never received education or training in another field to diversify yourself, you are the fool. (not to anyone specifically).
Ratt

A tariff method such as this would allow nations to see the benefits of free trade and gain an appreciation for our country as they become more free governmentally and economically. Likewise, it would also serve to increase tariffs against countries that move towards the ant heap of totalitarianism. As a country begins to close down its economy to the free markets our increased tariffs will encourage our businesses to decrease their investments in those countries and reduce our dependency on those countries. As a country begins to close down its government and adopt a less democratic government it should more easily seize our businesses therefore our tariffs would go up to hedge against that potential loss. In addition to hedging against loss and showing our discontent, a closed down economy with closed down trade will hurt that country's economy and they will realize that it is not in their best self interest to continue to close themselves down politically or economically. Free trade works therefore we should adopt a system which promotes it throughout the world for the sake of peace and prosperity.

The problem Tim is the kid is just pushing a button and can't fix anything if it goes wrong and can't setup anything. They have someone do it for them. Tool work isn't about just loading a part in a CNC machine and pushing a button. To truely know the job you need to know how to do multiple things.

There are a lot of unemployed tradesmen out there created by this unfair competition and business know it so they take advantage of it and offer people substandard wages, people gotta eat, so they take it.

As far as 20 year old kids making precision movements, yes they do it but under the orders of superiors and only after proper trainning and along that line as they get better they are promoted and educated again. Along with that comes pay increases. American business wants to keep these button pushers at the bottom to keep them cheap.
What do you think the impact would be if we had to tool up for a long drug out war lets say 20 years from now and we don't have the manufacturing capability or the skill neccessary to build our defense back up? Is China going to build it for us? This is dangerous ground.

The scary part Tim and I mean no disrespect, You have the same way of thinking that my former boss had. He has no idea what our job entails and believes that you don't need tooling experience to run a tooling company.
Just because a man has an economics degree does not qualify him to run a tooling company. Back in the good old days when people where promoted within, like the Millitary" they knew the business and what the plants capabilities are. I am just reporting to you what I think I am observing through your comments.

Your "observations" are a cop-out. Rather than addressing my argument you just try to dismiss me as a person and therefore dismiss everything I say without ever having to address my argument. In fact, you only serve to reinforce my argument. If you can't do the job without the experience, then businesses can't succeed in China because they lack the experience. If an expert with "button pushers," as you so arbitrarily refer to them, to assist them works more efficiently then a dozen experts pushing buttons then why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? It means a cheaper product and increased purchasing power for the average American, a good thing in my book.

No Tim, My concern is not so much the environmental thing. My concern is companies exploiting lax standards knowing full well the consequences on the environment and peoples jobs in America for the all mighty dollar and not giving a hoot.

Tim, would you kill someone in America? No, It is wrong.
Would you kill someone in China if it was legal? No, because it is wrong. This is what I am trying to say.

As far as war, I didn't say another Democracy would go against us, I meant another country. The reason why we where successful after Pearl Harbor was our ability to use our industrial capabilities to rebuild in a short manner of time. If we would not have done that, Japan would have landed in North America.

By the way, I don't use scare tactics, I am just saying the way it is. Yes, I do agree somewhat with your economic reasoning. Look at the housing market, it is making a correction right now. People mortgaged these and now owe more than the house is worth. Yes, if lower prices are here across the board then yes we should make a correction in our wages. I think that is what is going on to put us on a level playing field with other countries, bringing the Americans wages down.

Any economist will tell you that wage fluctuations in an economy are a natural part of any economy. Attempting to avoid any changes in wages will only lead to dragging down wages. What you are leaving out of your analysis is purchasing power. Decreased wages means decreased prices, decreased prices means increased purchasing power.

As for the trade deficit, the exchange rate for the dollar has been declining, the dollar has been becoming worth less and less internationally. The result of this situation is not a bad thing because a cheaper dollar means that it becomes easier for foreigners to buy our products. If it is easier for foreigners to buy our products then they will buy more and since our dollars are worth less we cannot buy as much of their currency (Euro's, Franks, etc.) which makes it harder for us to buy their products. The result is a shift of this country away from imports and towards exports allowing the trade deficit to correct itself and become a trade surplus. A trade deficit is just as dangerous to have as a trade surplus so pay no attention to those who complain about the trade deficit as though a trade surplus would be any better.

As for exploiting cheap labor, what would you suggest, businesses go into poverty ridden areas with no education, no resources, no experience and start paying people $20 an hour to clean tables? Go to those countries and ask those people if they feel they are being exploited, ask them if they would be happier if those jobs were not there. $2 a day may seem like exploitation to us but when you were making 50

Tim, I agree with that. The problem is how it is done. If we where going to do that why not slowly? There are plenty of boomers getting ready to retire, we could have had a smoother transition. Remember, it isn't just auto makers suffering. I am non union and supply for auto industry, or used to. This was done so suddenly with no regard to workers and everyone lumped all of us into one "Lazy group"

We work hard for our money, and have a large responsibilty. We don't have someone looking over our shoulder, it is up to us. If we don't do our jobs, the paperwork will show.

I think the next post should lighten things up for all of us.

Changed my Avatar to it.

The reason that factories here shut down so fast was not because more competition for labor opened up with trade agreements, it was because there was no competition, there was an absolute monopoly over labor by the unions in Michigan and you lost your non-union job because it supported union jobs. When they shut down, naturally so did your plant. Unions are still strong to this day in Michigan, over 20% of Michigan's work force (AFTER the collapse of the unions beginning in 1994) is unionized.

The problem is that instead of slowly changing over the years leading up to 1994 with NAFTA and GATT the unions in order to ensure they didn't lose their inflated salaries and benefits pressured the government to close down trade, to raise tariffs against foreign cars. The result, a steady decline in the quality of American Cars due to the complete lack of competition. They didn't compete because they didn't have to. Chrysler needed to be bailed out during the 1980's, all domestic cars made during the 1980's were garbage, but union wages continued to climb despite these poor products. Then, finally, people got tired with the garbage products that they were getting so we opened up trade and everything fell apart. Why did everything fall apart? Because inflated union wages and an absolute unwillingness of unions to compromise on wages to take wage decreases and benefit reforms caused the industry to evacuate Michigan. Many of those factories didn't even move to Mexico, they moved down South. It was a foolish man who built is house upon the sand, and that is precisely what

Tim, I get the over paid thing, but quality? I bought my GM truck brand new in 1998. I have 225,000 miles on it. I still drive it now and still trust it. Yes, regular maintenance has to be performed, but every vehicle needs that. This is why it lasted me so long. You couldn't drive any vehicle that long without maintenance. I know others that have vehicles in the 200's and are American vehicles. Yes, the 1980's vehicles where crap except near the end of the 80's. My wife had an 86 charger that had over 200,000 miles on it too. Yes, I agree, that people on an assembly line getting paid more than I is bad.