4dollars15cents's Blog

Everyone wants to harp on Hilary's plan for healthcare, but they don't offer some different or another idea or plan. Why is that?

Dave, the Declaration of Independence clearly states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Libert and the pursuit of Happiness."

Are you tell me, Dave, that having healthcare is not an unalienable right? That our congress has the right to not take care of its citizens? The right to maintain health belongs to everyone. And when that can not be afforded or is buried in political balderdash, then life, as we know it, cease to exist.

Right now, we have a new strain of the strap virus, that is going around. If the poor can not get the right kinds of treatment, then it's eventually is going to effect the rich anyway. Because who works for the rich? Certainly not the rich. But let's move forward.

The Constitution of the United States clearly mention promoting for the general welfare of its citizens.

Are you telling me, Dave, that by providing healthcare for all, is not promoting general welfare for all citizens?

Do you really want to have this debate with me? You're not smart enough. Maybe you should go back to the fifth grade. I haven't even started with you. I'm just answering your question.

Also.....providing for the common welfare of the people of the US means: Provide for the defense of this nation....not to provide for our healthcare. Our country gives us the freedom to pursue careers that provide for healthcare and anything that you desire to own.

Russell, you're full of bull. And though, I'm sorry for the lost of your friend. Truly I am. It does not mean that socialized medicine doesn't work. Because I can 100% guarantee you that there are many U.S. citizens, who going through the exact same thing, as your friend did, and your friend STILL had a better chance of getting the right kinds of treatment, than any U.S. citizen, all combined.

And people do not flock to the U.S. for medicine. Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me that the U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world? Are you willing to place a wager on that? Because I would love to take your money. I would rob you senseless. You don't even have a point. You're just speaking to be speaking. And I appreciate your comment. I really do. But don't come at me with some B.S.

Furthermore, how can we provide for the defense of this great nation of ours, if we can not keep people healthy? Wouldn't that be the greatest defense that this country can provide for its citizens? Sounds too much like right, doesn't it?

Stop being so gullible, Russ. Working at McDonald's or at Wal-Mart does not provide the same kinds of quality healthcare, as it does a Senator or a president. Does it? Why not?

Russ, what's the healthcare cost for a family of six, versus a single person? That single person lives in a 200k home and makes about 125k annually. The family of six is a combined income of 65k. The wife has cancer and the one of the children has cerebral palsy. How can the father of this family keep up with the bills and still maintain s

4dollars.....I have a degree history with a minor in political science and working on a degree in the orgin of languages, so please do not say that my position is bull. You're obviously a libral who has no undersatnding of what this country should offer it's people. My mother is a doctor and well as my father and they both agree with my position that most foreigners come to this country for their healthcare. So before you try to come with the attitude of elistism, educate yourself. REMEMBER, SOCIALIZED ANYTHING DOESN'T WORK. For you to understand that, you have to understand history which obviously you don't

Final point.....I pay for my insurance, why can't the other person? In Europe, where they have Socialized Medicine, a person pays up to 50% of their pay in taxes to support their inane healthcare. You're probably one of the Lib's who propose we pay taxes in a graduated form of taxation. That my friend is plank number 4 of the communist menifesto. Before you espouse your vitriolic crap, I propose that you once again educate yourself.

Russ, with all of your degrees, you are still full of bull.

Prove, through facts and statictis, that socialized medicine doesn't work. I mean, what are the pros and cons?

You spoke about socialized medicine in Canada. Well Russ, it's working in Canada. In fact, it's working in England, France, even in Cuba, of all places.

Now, I'm not saying that the U.S. has to follow the exact suit of those countries, but the current situation with healthcare is only designed to keep the drugs companines and the politicians who support them "filthy" rich. Now, why don't you do the history on that. Start with the Nixon administration.

Like I stated earlier, Russ; you only want to support what you think or feel is comfortable. And you disagree with what you fear. Conservatives loves fear. Because they are not advanced enough to reason. Any time they have to move money, they start to get scared and lose their sense of comfort. Am I wrong?

Then why did president Bush veto a bill that would make healthcare available to poor children? Children, mind you. You know, the next generation of this wonderful country.

But then this nut case turn right around and asked congress to approve 46 billion more dollars on a war that hasn't progressed since it started. And you're asking me to educated myself with history? What is history going to say about this B.S.?

You still haven't answered my previous question.

You say that people come to the U.S. for healthcare. Now, I don't doubt that. But you can't generalize those people who come from places where there is no healthcare and then try to compare them to other places where there is healthcare. And then say, people come to the U.S. for our wonderful healthcare. Because the question that will be posed to you is, "who's paying for it?" Healthcare in the U.S. isn't free and definitely isn't universal. And that's why stated that you're full of bull.

And I apologize if that sounds offensive. But I don't like to be sold grain, when I know that it's salt. I know how to reason logic, facts amd circumstances. So, I'm very aware of what you're trying to say. But you're feeding me bull.

Now, people may not like the idea of socialized medicine or even how that may even sound. But nobody said that we had to do exactly what the soviets have done. I mean, we've already adopted their torture or interrogation tactics of terrorist. We definitely don't need their exact healthcare program. But hey, we need one better than what we've got. We do need a universal plan. But why is that such a big problem?

Well, let me tell you Russ. Fear! If it's nothing else, it's flat out fear.

It's fear of higher taxation and subsidizing. But how about giving a tax credit to those who invest and leads into more productive lifestyles? Because the real success of healthcare, Russ, isn't universal medicine or any other kind of reform. It's making better health choices.

But since we live in a society of convenient fast foods, pr

You have totally lost your way and I will not dignify your retort with a response. I scored 1540 on my SAT, what did you score? You say I, like most conservatives, fear what we don't know. That is such a tired response. Please think of something new. Dictating how we live, as you propose, is such communist ideology and does not work. But being the person that you are, a person that cannot think for him or herself, you probably like government
intrusion. I respect your comments, but my friend, they are full of bull.

continued....

If I cant pay for my life, its my own fault and I dont look to the governnent to pay for what is not their responsibility.

We do live in a society of convenience and is one of the reasons we have health problems. But thats our own fault. Every action has a consequence.....some good and some bad. Genes and family history should make you as a person aware what you can and cannot do healthwise, and that is not the respnsibility of the government, its yours. Jeez....

Now, a lot of people want to move away from the idea of socialized meds, simply because of its communistic origin. We don't want to seem like communist, do we? But let's stop being silly and craven, if you will. Why not entertain the possibility that all U.S. citizens, regardless of their social status, their ages, pre-existent health problems and ect., can get the same exact affordable healthcare? Why entertain the rich, by laughing at the poor? That's what president Bush did, when he choose to veto that bill to help poor children get healthcare. But then right around and asked for 46 more billion dollars to fund a useless war.

Sure, healthcare is expensive. Who can deny that? But since this war has begun and the huge deficit that came under the current administration, one would think that maybe we have our priorities mixed up. Because the U.S. would rather spend more dollars at killing people than saving people. And that's just stupid. And those who follow those ideas are full of bull.

The author is right that the current Administration loves bombs more than babies and that the war should be stopped and the funds used to fix healthcare in America - just the opposite of what Bush did recently with his S-CHIP veto.
But look at historical healthcare costs over the last 100 years and you'll see that costs stayed low and fairly steady - when corrected for inflation - until the 60s when the federal government got involved, since then costs have skyrocketed. We see this phenomena anywhere the government tries to regulate or "manage" the economy. Another reason why socialized medicine is not the answer.

More over, Thomas, socialized medicine can work if it's done to benefit citizens and not drug companies. And again, we don't even have to call it socialized medicine. But what ever it's called, it's a lot better than what is offered now.

Now, every U.S. citizen, that is able to work, should work. But let's be realistic. The cost of healthcare is insulting foolish. It's like adding salt to wounds. The last thing that someone should worry about is getting or being able to pay for healthcare. Because let's be honest. It's not cheap. And not all employers offer the same kinds of healthcare programs for their employees.

Therefore, depending on what company you work with, you're going to have to take what ever benefit they offer, as oppose to opting out to find your own healthcare provider and still have the money come out of your salary. There isn't a general healthcare program that people can go into and have the money come out of their paycheck. If you lose your job and try to purchase healthcare insurance, you're probably going to get sick from trying to keep up with all of the payments.

That's why there has to be a general healthcare program or "socialized medicine", that citizens can pay for, regardless of where they work or what kind of salary they make. If it cost one thing for you, then it's the same cost for me.

$4.15, I agree that socialized healthcare might be able to work if it were done for the people and not for the drug companies. But that's not going to happen in our current system - the lobbyists write the laws, and the drug companies have thousands of them, while the people have none.

Now that I've agreed, I'll point out that we are not a Democracy nor were we ever intended to be. Most of our problems today however arise because the politicians act like we are supposed to be a Democracy instead of a Republic with the Rule of Law instead of "anything goes".

I won't argue over what "general welfare" means. My point was the context of its use in the Constitution - "promote the general welfare" is not one of the powers of government, it is one of the reasons why "we the people" created the government. Read the Constitution again and I'm sure you'll agree.

Thomas, I understand what you're saying. And the only thing that I can say is that we, the people, have to stop electing other representatives of greed. WE have to stop promoting popular politics and really listen to the common sense of those who are willing to do the work of the people.

That's why I support Senator Joe Biden and Ron Paul. These two, in my opinion, are the only candidates who are making any kind of sense. Everyone else is looking for popularity. If elected, I don't think they would do any better than our current presidential screw up.

But hey, that screw up got both the "popular" vote, as well as the electoral vote, in the last presidential election. What does that really say about the ambitions of America?